When Gov. Chris Christie unveils his final state budget on Tuesday, one of the headliners could be the school funding formula. He proposed a wholesale overhaul eight months ago. Lawmakers have held nine legislative hearings since. And there’s still no consensus on a formula that the Senate, the Assembly and the governor can agree is fair. NJTV News Anchor Mary Alice Williams sat down with Senate President Steve Sweeney to discuss the school funding formula, the governor’s budget address, pension payments and more.
Williams: Senator, thank you for being here. You’ve had a bunch of hearings on the school funding formula. What will it take to arrive on a formula that meets the needs of all the varying school districts?
Sweeney: Well, we have the formula. It’s already in place. We just don’t fund it. There are a couple of things the Legislature did that really caused a bigger problem. There is a thing called hold harmless [clause] which was intended to be temporary so districts that might have lost some aid — because they didn’t have the students — would have time to wean off of it. And enrollment caps so that the money would follow the child, so if the child moves from one district to the other the money follows.
Williams: But that whole thing has lagged. So districts that have lost students haven’t necessarily lost money and vice versa. Districts that have gained students are getting money.
Sweeney: Exactly. A perfect example is in my home county there is a high school, Washington Township. They have 2,300 students, but they are being funded for 3,500. At the Kingsway Regional High School that has 1,000 students more with no funding. So the point is, the Legislature created something that was going to be temporary and we need to remove it. Now that’s not the only effects, but the formula itself is fine. We have to address special education funding too. The education funding should be a living document. It should be reviewed every couple of years to make sure that we are meeting all the needs and keeping up. The weighted formula works and we shouldn’t change it.
Williams: Jersey City Mayor Steve Fulop contends that his city is in line for a huge loss in funding — depending on how the formula works — because it appears as though his ratables have increased, though he says they really haven’t.
Sweeney: Well listen, this isn’t an attack on any one district, because we could go to Newark where they’re underfunded by over $100 million. To where what’s happened in Jersey City is, the local taxation is under supporting the school district by $200 million. Obviously that can’t happen overnight. You can’t right that ship overnight, but when you’re doing these tax abatements and taking all the money into the municipal government so that you can say, “I didn’t raise taxes,” well you’re not because the state’s doing extraordinarily extra stuff to support. You know, I was glad that the mayor said today that he would be open to ensure that communities that aren’t funding their districts their local share — what they should be sharing — that they can’t do a PILOT and take school funding away. That school funding should go away with the school.
Williams: You’ve been holding hearings on the Senate program, which is yours, the Senate prospects for how you fund schools, Assembly Speaker Prieto has been holding hearings in the Assembly on his formula. Can’t the two of you agree on a formula?
Sweeney: Well first, the Assembly hasn’t purposed anything. They’ve been holding hearings. They’ve been holding hearings. We’ve purposed something. The Senate absolutely purposed something over —
Williams: So, as simply as possible. You’ve purposed that this become a living document. That each and every year funding changes depending on student population. Is that what you are saying?
Sweeney: It’s funding the formula, it’s moving adjustment aid — any adjustment money you can move. Right now, we overfund school districts by $600 million, adding additional funding. So at the end on the day, we get everybody to 100 percent. Right now, what you have going on with the school funding formula is you have districts that are 150 percent and above and you have school districts that are 13 and 16 percent funded. So what we’re saying is, part of the problem was this enrollment cap and this hold harmless — so the Legislature did that. That’s continued to dig in and look at areas like, special education funding that’s a driver in cost, and as a parent of a child with special needs, my child deserves to be educated just like everyone else’s. You know my daughter works in the day care center. She’s very proud to be productive. So we don’t want to pit families against families. What we’re trying to do is to unite. Right now, we are divided because you have communities that are overfunded you have communities that are underfunded and the Legislature caused that. If we had taken just those two provisions off, every school district would be underfunded 85 percent. So the point is, we need to add more funding and we need to fund it, but we also have to recognize, all right, enough is enough, time’s up. That temporary provision is now nine years in place. So we need to start addressing it and I’m saying, five more years. So you’re talking 14 years before you fix it.
Williams: Gov. Christie’s budget address will be his final. Do you expect him to address school funding?
Sweeney: You know, he hasn’t said anything to me about his budget, but that’s not unusual, he never does. Hopefully he doesn’t try to address it with his plan because his plan really will hurt kids.
Williams: This is the formula that gives a flat rate per student, no matter where they live.
Sweeney: His is a formula that’s anything but fair. It really discriminates [against] the kids that are in impoverished communities. Paterson’s an example, right? I started this discussion with Paterson. Paterson teaches in 58 different languages. It costs more to educate a child there, but that child deserves an education just like —
Williams: It’s also an Abbott district.
Sweeney: Yeah but regardless, Newark they’re not being funded properly. What the governor wants to do is cut the funding in half, in a lot of these places, if not two-thirds and the point is, we’re not making the grade now funding and we’re not overfunding. People say “those districts” well it’s not those districts. Those districts are much more complicated.
Williams: Back to the budget address, Gov. Christie has publicly said not to expect any surprises. Do you take him at his word?
Sweeney: Well, I’m hoping. I’ll take him at his word until I hear the budget. But honestly, I’m hoping that we don’t have any surprises. I was thrilled to hear him say that he’s going to make the full pension payment this year.
Williams: And that was my next question — full pension payment. That’s nearly $2 billion. Is that possible and is it enough to right the ship?
Sweeney: It’s $2.5 billion, actually. We’re halfway there. So yes, it’s possible, but obviously it crows out other funding. Realize, we weren’t putting anything into the pension system. Two and a half billion dollars a year is a lot of money, but it’s only half of what we really need to put in. So, at the end of the day I was thrilled to hear him say this is his last budget. But basically the next six months of this budget is his and the next governor is going to have the balance. So you know, he signed my quarterly pension payment bill. So I’m hoping he makes the full payment, make the quarterly pension and then basically move to the next governor. You know make the quarterly pension payments and let the next governor take over.
Williams: What I’m hearing you say is it’s not enough to right the ship going forward?
Sweeney: No, not yet. Listen, there’s a thing called pension smoothing, as you stretch your payments out. We’re halfway there now, but the fact is we’re going to get better by putting more in. We wouldn’t be better by putting less in.
Williams: You’ve held up a bill because you didn’t have the votes, that would have the state reimburse so-called sanctuary cities if the federal government take the federal funding away for harboring immigrants. Can that bill pass and can the state afford to do it?
Sweeney: Well listen, yeah the bill can pass and I intend to put it up — I was just missing a member — and again this is one of those issues where not every Democrat’s going lock step, or every Republican. So can we afford it? I don’t think we can afford not to make a statement. I don’t think we can afford not to make a statement. We’re New Jersey. Ellis Island is in New Jersey. The Statue of Liberty is in New Jersey and we’re going to go along with the president saying you’re not welcome any more? This is — we are a country of immigrants. My dad has a sign on his door, in his office, that says “Irish Need Not Apply” in 1915 and guess what? The Irish made this country greater, just like the Italians and Polish and on and on and on. So, this is just the next generation of immigration and we should not be blocking and locking people up. When the president says “intense screening” well it takes you two years to get into this country now.
Williams: All right, thank you very much for being with us — Senate President Steve Sweeny.
Sweeney: Thank you.