In the contest to lead this state, the two major party candidates Democrat Phil Murphy and Republican Kim Guadagno have got much of the money and media attention. But, there are independent candidates also running for governor. Wednesday, we interviewed Gina Genovese. Thursday, Green Party candidate Seth Kaper-Dale and his running mate Lisa Durden joined Chief Political Correspondent Michael Aron.

Aron: Thank you both for being here. Mr. Kaper-Dale, what’s this candidacy all about?

Kaper-Dale: Thanks first of all for having us here. I’m happy to be here. My name is Seth Kaper-Dale and the campaign is called “The Last Are First.” I have been a pastor of a church for 16 years in Highland Park, New Jersey and every Sunday in our church we say, “the last shall be first and the first shall be last.” And then we walk out into New Jersey where the first is always first. I’ve been building affordable housing, I’ve been building programs for folks who struggle with mental illness, for folks re-entering society from prison and all of these opportunities have given me exposure to the brokenness in this state. I am tired of hearing about the middle class first, I want to hear about the last first. The last shall be first. And, if we believe the last shall be first, we believe that a wellspring can come on from below and move toward the middle class instead of this trickle-down from the top that never actually reaches the middle class.

Aron: Well, running as an independent, a Green Party candidate, the likelihood of actually becoming governor is infinitesimal. Are you running to make a statement to get an idea across?

Kaper-Dale: No. I’m running because 61 percent of the voters in the state of New Jersey did not come out for the last gubernatorial election. And most of those are people who feel so disenfranchised by the system, they feel so last that I believe, they need someone who listens to them. So, Lisa Durden and I have spent months now, over 300 times we’ve been out visiting with people in the streets and getting to know folks who see themselves as last. And through that, we learned about the issues that matter to them, and in the process, we learned about all sorts of issues that could help the middle class as well.

Aron: Ms. Durden, you’re the lieutenant governor candidate on this ticket.

Durden: Yes.

Aron: What do you bring to the ticket?

Durden: What I bring to the ticket is that I’m actually the poster child for the ticket. When he said to me, “Well, we want you to be the lieutenant governor and our motto is the last is first,” well I was thinking, well I am black, I’m a women and I’m poor. That’s about last. It reigned very natural to me and then some of the things that we stand for and something as simple as health care. When you’re talking about Medicare for all, I’ve had every program known to man as a citizen. I’ve had NJ Family Care, I’ve had regular health care, when I had a good job and then I had co-pays when I’ve gotten surgeries. So, all these kinds of things that are the ills in our society that make brown and poor people last, are things I experienced. So when he said join me, I thought I would be the perfect candidate because as lieutenant governor whose experienced those things, I can actually speak of those things from that advantage point.

Aron: You’re a kind of a controversial person. You got fired from Essex County College as an adjunct professor after you appeared on FOX News and defended the idea of a blacks only, Black Lives Matter rally, no whites allowed. Are you upset that you got fired and what’s your stance on that right now?

Durden: So, it wasn’t a Black Lives Matter rally, it was a private party that Black Lives Matter had and they wanted to have an intentional safe space which people had been doing for years. In Virginia, when those white supremacists went there, and the KKK went there to moreover people, they had the intentional safe space, too and when they had their private meetings not to invite black folks to say we are going to rollover you in Charlottesville. So, people have been doing intentional safe spaces for years not just black folks because they don’t want interlopers. So, I’m thinking what you call free speech not hate speech and I had the right to free speech even as an adjunct and I was a professional in the field speaking on the show. So, when I got suspended then fired I’m thinking so I get it, the color of free speech is white. So, what they do is they give white people free speech and they charge black folks for it. But I’m going to get a refund, I have a good lawyer whose going to make sure I get a refund.

Aron: You’re suing the school?

Durden: Not yet. But, we are going to look at our options.

Aron: Mr. Kaper-Dale, you’re known for your work with refugees. Sanctuary cities has become an issue between Phil Murphy and Kim Guadagno. Murphy said in the first gubernatorial debate that he would make New Jersey a sanctuary state. First of all, are you sympathetic to that?

Kaper-Dale: Yes. Not only am I sympathetic to it, my congregation is currently offering sanctuary to a couple. And, back in 2012 we offered sanctuary to nine individuals for 11 months. I know about sanctuary. I think, to be honest, Phil Murphy’s idea of sanctuary state is pretty weak. We need a sanctuary state with teeth. We need to be defending ourselves against the hate crime president who is carrying out racial and ethnic cleansing under the immigration reform.

Aron: If somebody is arrested by the local police and they look at his record and he’s wanted on an ICE detainer, the local police shouldn’t cooperate with them?

Kaper-Dale: Absolutely not. The things that the local police deal with and the things that immigration deal with should be completely separate. If we had a different type of a world where we could trust each other, maybe we’ll think differently. But at this moment, we have a hate crime president carrying out racial and ethnic cleansing under the immigration reform. We cannot be participating with the folks who are trying to get rid of black and brown people through immigration.

Durden: And, by also sending a message that black and brown people from other countries are criminals. The fact of the matter is most crimes that are committed in America are committed by Americans, not “immigrants.” So, these are just not facts and the narrative is just false speaking of fake news.

Aron: Alright, well thank you both for coming in and telling us what this ticket stands for.

Durden: And, we thank you for the fair coverage. Many media outlets want to hide people like us, but NJTV News said let people make their choice. Not many people stand by that. Good journalism, not fake journalism.

Kaper-Dale: Thanks Michael.

Aron: Thank you both.